Girls on Film: Angeliki Papoulia on acting, physicality and generosity

This interview is also available in Romanian.

Film audiences most likely know Angeliki Papoulia from her iconic role as the Older Daughter in Yorgos Lanthimos’ barking-mad Dogtooth (2009) — while only one of her earliest major appearances, there’s much you can tell from this very challenging role about her incredible caliber as an actress. While also working as a theater director and actress, Papoulia has since been one of the most fascinating screen presences not only of Greek cinema, but perhaps of contemporary European cinema as a whole. She’s often collaborated with Lanthimos (in Alps, 2011; The Lobster, 2015) and other close colleagues like Syllas Tzoumerkas and Christos Passalis, at the same time working on many coproductions, including, more recently, Helena Wittman’s mesmerizing neo-odyssey Human Flowers of Flesh (which also played in Bucharest at BIEFF in 2022), or Gastón Solnicki’s A Little Love Package (2022), an ode to a changing Vienna. In 2023, two films that feature her performance, My Mother Is a Saint (Syllas Tzoumerkas) and Touched (dir. Claudia Rorarius), premiered at the Locarno Film Festival, which was also the occasion that allowed this interview to happen.

Just as director Gastón Solnicki once told me, jokingly, in idle conversation, about an extra who seemed to have developed an innocent crush on the actress, it’s hard not to fall in love with Angeliki when you watch her on the screen. There’s always an experimental nature to her roles; they’re often physically demanding, not only in how they have to match the surrealist outbursts of Lanthimos’ characters, but also in the sense of a performance that uses the whole body, and sometimes relies only on movement to relay the most complex of feelings. There’s a taciturn grace to Angeliki, an almost Epsteinian photogenic quality enhanced by the screen: take Ida’s character in Human Flowers of Flesh, her stoic movements and little, but poetic words flow just naturally into the greater poetry of the image. There’s a gesture in this film, where she does nothing more than touch the forehead of another character – this warmth innate to the action may encompass all that makes her such a compelling presence.

I sat with Angeliki to discuss this physicality of her approach, as much as what she’s prepared to bring into acting: risks, but also, most importantly, generosity. 

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Last year, I had the pleasure to spend a bit of time with two directors that you’ve worked with, Helena Wittmann (Humans of the Flower Flesh, 2022) and Gastón Solnicki (A Little Love Package, 2022) – and they both had to share the sweetest things about you, as an actor, as much as a person. I felt like I had met you without ever meeting you. These films seem to draw a bit on your life, or on who you are as a person, where you come from, etc. Do you feel that there is, indeed, a biographical aspect that translates to the screen, or are they two separate parts for you?

That depends. In some films that I play in, there isn’t any of my biographical background to the character. With Helena’s film, Ida was a character that was built. Some parts were written by Helena, in the beginning, but then, of course, we created it together. But I don’t think it had anything to do with me at all. When Helena wrote the character, she hadn’t yet found who was going to play Ida. That is a starting point, though. Afterwards, of course, as an actor and as an actress, I am always somehow influenced by the role that I have to play, and I bring my own personal experience, or my own personal qualities or personal characteristics to every character. It’s a combination, I would say.

While, for A Little Love Package, let’s say the beginning of it was a little bit autobiographical. We used my own name and based it on my wish to move to another country, it could be any place, but here it was Vienna. We used my need to find a new environment or a new place to fit in. But that was a very general starting point. In the film, it’s not that I am playing myself because… You cannot limit yourself to, you know, one character, or one thing or one quality. All of us, we are so many different people at the same time. You know what I mean? We have so many different aspects and qualities. One day we’re like that, and the other we’re different. We’re all ambivalent. We always change; we cannot define ourselves in a strict and solid way. 

Nevertheless, there are a lot of personal things to it, because I really like to work in a personal way. I like trying to somehow be involved in a very personal way in every film and in every character that I’m playing. But this is not to say it’s something that becomes autobiographical. This is the way I work. I’m always trying to find a way to be involved, because I think it’s crucial for what I do.

Would you say this also applies to your work in theatre or do you approach film and theatre very differently, for example, in terms of how you relate to the characters?

No, I wouldn’t say I approach it differently. Although, theatre is a little bit different in terms of the medium. There is also the fact that I am a theatre director, not only an actress, so that is a huge difference for me. But the function of acting, I understand it more or less the same. I’m always trying to find something deeper and to relate it all to something else that is important for me at the moment. And it’s an act of generosity, somehow. I remember with Gastón that we were talking a lot about being generous and the whole film was created based on that act of generosity coming from everyone. For me, it has to do with that, too, with being generous with what you have to do. I’m also trying to push things to the limit in order to discover more and more about what I’m doing in every film and with every character.

It also has a lot to do with the people that I’m working with, with the directors, because it’s very important for me to work with people with whom I can really communicate with, and who I can relate to, who can allow me to liberate myself. There is a trust there, it’s this kind of mutual understanding, it’s this… very sweet coming together.

That’s a very beautiful thought. What I can feel from the films that you’ve played in is indeed a homely sentiment. They feel like something that was made together.

Absolutely. This is how I understand filming or working in theatre. It’s always teamwork. I mean, most of the time I’m trying to work in these terms, in team terms. I really enjoy it like that, because it’s a small group of people, and we are all there for the same purpose. And we’re all open and somehow equal, you know. Each one of us is trying to create and to offer their best.

Because you’ve worked consistently as a theatre director, I am wondering, would you ever consider directing a film?

Yes. I would love to, but I haven’t done it yet. There are some technical notions that I’m missing, and I think you have to know a bit of the technical stuff in order to do that [well]. But I think it’s something that I would really like to try. I’ve been trying to write a script for a short film, and that’s still a difficult process for me. Let’s see where that goes. I would love to direct. I don’t know when, I don’t know how, or if it will happen, but it’s something that I find very, very interesting because I like photography, especially analogue photography, and I’ve always also liked painting, too. The first thing that I wanted to do was to be a painter. Acting came only after. Creating images, through photographs or through cinema is something that just brings me joy.

You’ve acted a lot in Greek cinema, but also in many co-productions. How do you navigate between a Greek context and international one? Do you feel more comfortable in one of them or is it just a matter of them being different things?

To be honest, I really like meeting new people and people from different countries. That’s always fascinating to me. Perhaps it’s because I realised that I can communicate artistically with them. Through art, I can communicate with so many different people, who come from different countries and have very different backgrounds. What is really touching for me is that, despite all of this, we can find a similar artistic path and a way to collaborate. That also gives me a lot of joy. We’ve mentioned Gastón, he’s from Argentina. He grew up in a completely different environment. Helena is from Hamburg, Germany, and Claudia [Rorarius], who I worked with for Touched (2023), is also from Germany, but a different part. It’s so many other directors that I’ve worked with and realised, after a while, that, you know, art has no limits. This is something that really gives me a lot of strength. It’s like we are united through our way of working together. It has to do with becoming close with people that I would never have otherwise met, or imagined to be working with.

With Greek directors or Greek collaborators, of course, in the beginning, it’s something more familiar. It’s the same background and same mentality. You can immediately recognize that we come from the same country. We are all fed up by the same many things. With the Greek directors that I have worked with again and again, we’ve created a bond based on how familiar we feel to each other. We conceive, perceive Greek society in the same way, and we have the same problems or traumas. We want to fight against the same things. 

You’ve worked recurrently with directors (and not only) like Yorgos Lanthimos, Christos Passalis, or Syllas Tzoumerkas – but, given the films that they make, I suppose it goes beyond this shared background. There seem many common values that bring you together and attract you to each other in a way that goes beyond being Greek.

That’s true. It has to do with aesthetics, too, with the same way we conceive art, what we want to do through films and theatre, how we want to express ourselves. But it is about being collaborators as much as friends. With Yorgos, Christos and Syllas, I’m very close friends. It’s like I’ve created some kind of artistic family for me.

In terms of aesthetics, you mentioned you wanted to be a painter, but I know you also wanted to be a dancer when you were very young. It’s my impression that a lot of the roles that you play are characters that do not have very many lines of dialogue, despite being main characters, even. You are incredible in these roles where it’s as if the body speaks more than the character. I was wondering if this is part of your approach, or if these are the roles that you are attracted to. Or if it’s something that you settle upon together with the directors.

It’s something that I’m really attracted to. I like doing it and prefer to do it. When it comes to theatre, especially, but also in film, I am attracted a lot to physicality. In theatre I have been working a lot in what is called devised theatre. So, I have been improvising a lot for many years, writing texts while improvising on stage, and trying to be based on instinct or on the exact moment – while not trying to analyse it or be logical about it. I would say it’s the same for film. I’m always trying to embody, let’s say, the moment and being there with my whole body. Even when there’s a scene with just my upper body, I try to be there as a whole. I think this physicality is something that can offer more details or that brings texture to a film. It brings something that is just bigger, in my opinion.

This was also something that I’ve discovered together with Yorgos Lanthimos, because his works and the scripts he has written with Efthimis Filippou are very much based on people who, at some point, get very physical or they explode, either in a very violent way or in a very physical way. With Yorgos, we never analysed characters from a psychological point of view, we’ve never done that kind of character analysis. We’ve more or less let ourselves be driven by instincts or by the physicality of the moment. We’ve tried to be there, to react more and to act less. In that sense, I think, in every film, I’m always trying to participate in a more… Let’s say in a more complete way. I try to surprise myself, to not have in mind any pre-decided thoughts or ways of acting or being. And to always take some risks.

Are there any other characteristics that attract you to a character on screen? Or even when you look at a script, are you interested in specific kinds of traits that might get you more excited to play the role?

When reading a script, gender is something that I’m always considering. I’m trying to play characters that are not reproducing gender stereotypes, because I’m so fed up with them. Of course, over the past years, things have started to change – and I am really happy about that! But even just 10 or 15 years ago, female characters were always so limited and so, you know, weak. They were always so dependent on a man. And, even back then, I was always trying to play or to find characters that were different, and that were trying to somehow narrate a different story when it comes to gender. This is something that would always concern me. I have refused many, many times to play characters that I think are clichéd or written in a way that is so banal and so unfair. If you think of it, it’s completely unfair to play characters that are based on certain expectations [that people have] about women at very specific points of their lives. This is something that I’m trying to avoid.

We’ve talked about your work with Oscar-winning filmmakers, but I was wondering how you approach what some would say are smaller, less prestigious projects, like short films. Just recently, you played in My Mother Is a Saint (2023, dir. Syllas Tzoumerkas). Do you approach things differently with short films, or even with people who are at their first films?

That doesn’t matter to me. I am very open to playing in short films. What is important for me is that I like the work, the director, and the script, and that I think I can communicate with them. It’s not a criterion that it’s short or long. Sometimes it’s actually very nice to be there for three-four days and create something in such a short time, compared to a feature where you have to be there every day for 30 or 45 days. This very, very limited period of time can also… increase the adrenaline, which is nice to work with, as well.

How did you approach Touched? That’s also a very short role, and a director you’ve worked with for the first time.

I’ve known Claudia for a long time from Berlin; we met when I was working at the Schaubühne Theatre. I always liked her work and she proposed that I play the head of the clinic in the film, [which is only a secondary role]. I read the script and I really, really liked the story of these two people and what Claudia had in mind. It seemed to me really touching. The way she wanted to narrate this love story through the bodies of the two protagonists was something that I felt was necessary. I think this film was really necessary. It’s nice to describe sexuality or love through the bodies of people. I also liked the fact that I had to play in German. I’ve never done that before. I loved this situation where I had to test myself and see if I could really play in a totally different language that I don’t speak. I have been watching a lot of German theatre over the past years in Berlin, so this language is familiar to me, but still, I’m not speaking it. I’m not a German-speaking person. The main actress, Isold, was also not speaking German, but I could still speak Greek with Stavros, who plays the other main character, so this made for an interesting combination.

I really enjoyed the rhythm of this film, that it was taking time to unfold, and that there is some kind of patience and understanding when it comes to how people are touching each other and how they are coming close. This is something that I like a lot in this film, this kind of very subtle and tender way of filming and approaching sexuality and love. It’s also a very personal film for Claudia. I liked the idea of creating something that was very close to her.

I’m thinking this project was also something that resonated with you in terms of physicality, too.

It is that, but it also has a lot to do with choreography. The whole film is like a choreography, that is, separately from the parts in which they are actually dancing together. Things unfold like a choreography. I’ve been thinking about that a lot in theatre. I’ve been thinking that when I direct a play, I’m actually directing a choreography. Choreography is something that I like a lot.

I’m sorry, it’s very early. My mind is going to many places. Are you a morning person?

No.

No, me neither.

I don’t think anyone working in the arts is.

Isn’t that right?

1 comment

Desi audientele de film o cunosc cel mai probabil pe Angeliki Papoulia din rolul iconic al Fiicei Mai Mari din Dogtooth (2009) al lui Yorgos Lanthimos – in timp ce aceasta este doar una din primele sale aparitii majore, se poate observa cu usurinta din acest rol extrem de provocator abilitatea ei incredibila ca actrita. Papoulia lucreaza si ca regizor si actrita de teatru, devenind una dintre cele mai fascinante prezente de pe ecran nu doar in cinema-ul grec, ci poate in intregul cinema european contemporan. Colaboreaza adesea cu Lanthimos (in Alps, 2011; The Lobster, 2015) si cu alti colegi apropiati precum Syllas Tzoumerkas si Christos Passalis, in acelasi timp lucrand la multe coproductii, inclusiv productia mai recenta a lui Helena Wittman, mesmerizantul neo-odiseu Human Flowers of Flesh (care a fost de asemenea prezentat la BIEFF la Bucuresti in 2022), sau A Little Love Package (2022) al lui Gaston Solnicki, o reprezentare a Vienei in schimbare. In 2023, doua filme in care interpreteaza, My Mother Is a Saint (Syllas Tzoumerkas) si Touched (regizat de Claudia Rorarius), au avut premiera la Festivalul de Film de la Locarno, acesta fiind si momentul care a permis realizarea acestui interviu.

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